Tuesday, November 10, 2009

Quote of the day: America as a Christian nation

An interesting observation, built upon the expression of the idea that while America is a secular polity, that polity is built upon the bedrock of an essentially Christian culture:
America is a Christian nation; this is a matter of fact, not of opinion. Whether America will remain a Christian nation is matter for argument, perhaps: the creation of special rights for pathics, for instance, indicates that Christian morals are going by the board; and the prevalence of abortion, the deliberate destruction of one's offspring, is another suggestion that both Christian belief and Christian morals have begun to succumb to total religious indifference, if not yet to atheism. But if Christian faith and morals will be generally rejected by the coming of the twenty-first century, then probably the whole culture will disintegrate, the material culture as well as the intellectual and moral culture; and human existence here will become poor, nasty, brutish, and short: unless some quite new culture, which as yet nobody can imagine, should rise up. Any such unnameable innovative culture, to endure, would require some transcendent sanction, perhaps some theophanic event -- something more enduring than mere Marxist ideology, which was a violent attempt at a new faith and a new culture.
 - Russell Kirk, Renewing a Shaken Culture (1992).

5 comments:

Andrew said...

Hey Mark,

Seems a bit crazy. Give my article a read (http://spokaneatheist.blogspot.com/) I never turn down criticism when it comes to my logic/reasoning.

Andrew

Joe said...

The Treaty of Tripoly (1797) signed by President John Adams and ratified by the U.S. Senate states that the United States is in no way founded upon the Christian religion.

Also, abortion was basically legal before "quickening" during the colonial period and the early part of the nineteenth century. In fact, abortion, while being heavily discouraged and condemned by the Churches, has always been available in some form.

Mark in Spokane said...

Andrew,

I left you a post over at your blog. Don't cut Kirk short. You may not have liked that quote, but he's a thinker that is well worth reading -- even if one is a liberal or a non-believer.

Joe,

First, the term you reference in the Treaty of Tripoli is one that I have written about a bit in a published article. The term is disputed. Is is present in the Arabic copy of the treaty, but not in the English copy or in the official French text either (French being the language of diplomacy in the early 19th century). So, I wouldn't make too much of it.

Where did you get your information re: abortion. Wherever you got it, it's wrong. Blackstone writes about the common law prohibitions on abortion being strictly enforced, and the common law was in effect in the colonies and the American Republic after the Founding. Where abortion was treated differently is that prior to quickening it was not considered "murder" (a sub-category of homicide). It was, however, considered to be a serious wrong -- a felony in most cases (and there was only one penalty for a felony under the common law -- death by hanging).

Abortion was not legal. It may not have been considered murder in evey circumstance, but it wasn't legal.

Andrew said...

I need to concede a point to you on the special rights for gays. I'd like to claim that I'm super-smart and came up with it all on my own, but my boss pointed it out to me.

I asked him of any special rights gays receive. He pointed out that if you give a gay person a hard time for being gay you can get in trouble, whereas if you give a fat person a hard time, too bad for them.

Mark in Spokane said...

Andrew,

Quite true.

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